User talk:Shran/2007 Archive
For older discussions, see my archives here, here and here. Erasure of background material As per request, as I didn't want to take the time to cite entries only to see them erased like so many of my entries or additions of late, I have erased close to 100% of what I wrote in regards to the naming of ships.--Airtram3 13:29, 5 February 2007 (UTC) :The only requests for citation that I saw were in cases where you said something "is" rather than "may be. For example: ::The ''Columbia is named after the 18th century American sloop which became the first ship of this country to circumnavigate the world and to discover the Columbia River. Both the Apollo Command Module Columbia, of Apollo 11, and the space shuttle ''Columbia'' are named in honor of this ship.'' :That had a citation request, because it is claiming something as fact and therefore putting words into the mouths of the production people and/or the people in universe. Something like that needs citation. On the contrary, if you leave it as "may have been" you are making reasonable speculation, but are not stating something as fact: ::This vessel may be named either for several sailing vessels named HMS ''Exeter and serving in Earth's British navy, or they may be named for the city Exeter in that country.'' :See the difference? --OuroborosCobra talk 13:41, 5 February 2007 (UTC) :I did what I thought best by wiping out the additions. I wasn't sure that if you or another mod or a contributer may feel if the material is not based on canon or the word of the producters, that the material would be there the next day. By wiping it out, I don't have to be responsible for the additions for they don't exist.--Airtram3 13:56, 5 February 2007 (UTC) From LordEdzo 02/06/07 Hi, Charles. I've been away from the site for several days. Today, Memory Alpha says I have a new message waiting for me, but I can't seem to locate it. Just wanted to make sure that if it was from you, I'm aware of it but can't find it. Please resend? Thanks, Edzo In-universe links in RealWorld articles So... I've been under the impression for a while now that having in-universe links in "realworld" articles was a good thing, since it shoves people back in and about the wiki. Now, I know that links to realworld pages from 'in-universe' sections of regular pages is bad, but the other way around seems to make some certain amount of sense to me. That and if we're going to clean it up, it's going to take quite some time and effort. :) -- Sulfur 02:52, 8 February 2007 (UTC) :Originally, I thought so, as well, but Jorg (I think it was Jorg...) made a good point when suggesting we try to remove in-universe links from real world articles because the pages that was linked discusses the subject from an in-universe perspective and in turn doesn't really have anything to do with the subject to which it was linked... or something. Um... Jorg worded it better, sooo... ask him. :) In any case, it appears some discussion must be had regarding this before we start making the changes. --From Andoria with Love 03:04, 8 February 2007 (UTC) That's how I felt when I raised the issue a while back, that the in-universe links really aren't related to the real world articles (even if the names are the same). In addition, I think it encourages people to mix articles in the other direction (i.e. realworld info in the in-universe articles). My 2 cents is that we should keep them totally separate (the exception, of course, is if we're referencing an in-universe topic in the real world article, for example, talking about someone who designed the phaser prop or something like that). -- Renegade54 05:36, 8 February 2007 (UTC) Re: " Future's End‎; 20:07 . . Shran (Talk | contribs) (removed opinion)" The idea that the gag is subtle is in and of itself "Opinion". When I wrote this today I referenced it outside of the main body of the article because I saw it and it cracked me up. It's a funny bit and it seems absurd to remove that part of the commentary whilst leaving other "opinion" oriented things in. Is there a different heading under which my contribution should be properly placed?– Foravalon 09:50, 8 February 2007 (UTC) :The term "subtle" never struck me as opinionated; that's why I didn't remove it. I guess it could be considered opinion, though, in which case we could just remove that word and it wouldn't harm the rest of the note. There's nothing wrong with including that note within the background section (although the part that says "this probably was" should be changed to "this might have been"). Since this is an encyclopedia, however, opinions (calling something funny, bad, odd, etc.) should be excluded from the notes. Hope that helps. --From Andoria with Love 10:02, 8 February 2007 (UTC) re: Reference template Hi Shran. Please see Forum:Episode reference templates before reverting more of those... Thanks :) -- Cid Highwind 11:27, 9 February 2007 (UTC) Pre-TNG Timeline *Actually I was the person who posted that timeline on the Hidden Frontier site. Around a year and a half ago. The same thing with my "pre-federation history of warp drive". I made that speculative history up and have posted it on numerous sites. -- Datalore 18:13, 9 February 2007 (UTC) :*Hrm... not to sound rude, but do you have any proof of this? That would certainly be another matter entirely. In any case, you should also bring this up here, if you haven't already. --From Andoria with Love 18:16, 9 February 2007 (UTC) Tense Since when is the issue of tense under debate? Or have I missed something? -- Renegade54 01:50, 12 February 2007 (UTC) :It's not; IIRC, it was settled with the agreement to use past tense except when it came to more long-lasting things like star systems, etc. the edit has been reverted, not only because it was wrong but also because it altered more than just the tense. --From Andoria with Love 04:13, 12 February 2007 (UTC) :*Actually, having had a look at other articles for cities, states, etc. it appears the preferred tense is present tense. So, I guess Foravalon can re-do the tense if s/he wishes, just so long as s/he doesn't revert the other changes. --From Andoria with Love 04:16, 12 February 2007 (UTC) ::Phew, thank you kindly, reading of Paris in the past tense just makes me cringe whilst visions of that scene from "Deep Impact" dance through my head. Au revoir Paris! -Foravalon 09:47, 12 February 2007 (UTC) :::Regardless, tense has been determined to be generally in past tense. As such, the city articles to which Shran refers should be changed to the past tense. Otherwise, let's just make everything present tense. We can't lean one way with some things, another way with other things, just because they exist now. So, to my mind, that means that everything in-universe is past tense, even if it makes us cringe because we live there, and we're pretty sure it still exists. :) -- (still on vacation...) Sulfur 18:56, 12 February 2007 (UTC) ::I know that this really is not the place to further this discussion but I find many things inaccurate about the above statement. "Determined" by whom? And what exactly is "in general" supposed mean in this context? If there has there been an official survey I am unaware of it. I think you've mistaken the intended humor of my above post for my actual stance on the subject. The current actual existence of any "real life" place or thing, has no bearing on anything being discussed here. I feel no remorse that by the 24th Century my native land of Los Angeles has been obliterated by the great Hermosa Earthquake and is now home to the world's largest coral reef. Big whoop. ::My stance on the subject of tense is that yes, while many MA articles refer to events which have taken place in the vast story of Trek, and would naturally be in the past tense. But a great deal of articles refer to locations, planets, star systems, stellar phenomena, and even institutions which have not, within the Canon of Trek, been met with any demise, destruction, uncreation (see: alternate timelines) or end. Thus from the viewpoint of one within the "Star Trek Universe" it would be inaccurate to imply otherwise. The goal of having a uniform single tense for all of Memory Alpha is an unrealistic and overly simplistic one, it insults our intelligence and our ability to discern and navigate through the subtleties and complexities of language. To wash out the architecture of our words in this grand referential project for the sake of simplicity would not only be inaccurate to the whole but inelegant as well. -Foravalon 03:44, 13 February 2007 (UTC) :You're right, this isn't the place to discuss this. ;) A discussion on this issue was started a while back in Ten Forward and can now be found here. This discussion should be continued there. --From Andoria with Love 16:40, 13 February 2007 (UTC) ::To add more fun and confusion it's also being discussed here. -Foravalon 17:31, 13 February 2007 (UTC) :Oh, great. Nothing quite like holding one discussion on three separate pages. Oh, well, have fun with that. ;) --From Andoria with Love 17:33, 13 February 2007 (UTC) Hope I'm putting this in the right place. Shran (I assume you're the same person as "From Andoria With Love"), got your note. Yes, I removed it from the talk page lest it be considered un-wiki-like (new word). I'll put it back. My intention was not so much to link to the "reviews," but rather the background info that many might enjoy--the cut scenes, etc. Thanks for your kindness in responding and editing. Best, Dave Sir Rhosis 21:23, 15 February 2007 (UTC) How 'bout this. Follow one of the links and tell me if you think they merit inclusion as fact-based items or if there is too much of my opinion. I know you missed a link I put on "Mirror, Mirror" and, iirc, one for "The Cage." There's one on "Arena," and is a comparison between the Brown short story and the episode. If you feel they do not belong, I will understand your deleting the links as you did on the others. Once you get to those links, you can easily navigate through the pages. Sir Rhosis 05:09, 16 February 2007 (UTC) image deletions Not 100% sure, if indeed that guy is legit, but if so, it seems to me Mike Sussman has personal images, as well as a couple other Trek production related individuals....--Alan del Beccio 21:39, 23 February 2007 (UTC) :I'm not sure if he's legit, either. As for Sussman and such, I think the personal images he has uploaded are actually usable on MA, aren't they? They're him on the set, I believe. At present, I think they're being used as background images. Could be wrong... --From Andoria with Love 21:45, 23 February 2007 (UTC) :: Image:Eric_A_Stillwell.jpg, nevertheless, I agree that many personal images are still overkill. --Alan del Beccio 22:12, 23 February 2007 (UTC) :::Even that image is serving dual purpose, it is being used at Eric A. Stillwell, not just personal use. --OuroborosCobra talk 22:13, 23 February 2007 (UTC) ::::And since the person in the picture is the same person who uploaded the picture (hopefully :P), then all's okay. :) --From Andoria with Love 03:27, 24 February 2007 (UTC) Opinion You altered my contribution to the Omega Directive Voyager page, but I wrote it after seeing this from "Distant Origins": The Voth scientists' discovery of the human skull and subsequent search for Voyager are a perfect example of continuity in the Trek franchise; the skull is left over from "Basics, Part II," while the cannister of warp plasma at the space station is an acknowledgement of the events of "Fair Trade". Despite these factors, this episode's popularity among fans is largely for its unique presentation; the story is told from the point of view of the Voth, and Voyager and its crew do not even appear until the third act. Should this article also have its opinion removed? -- 06:48, 26 February 2007 (UTC) My bad about the updates. I didn't intend to do it like that but I kept seeing things that needed to be fixed. My alterations to the page are still acceptable, correct? Gorn Page OK, one more question. I've noticed that the TOS Gorn has five fingers on each hand while the ENT Gorn only has three. Would that be considered background information, or should I include it in the paragraph dealing with possible diverging evolution of Gorn. That's the one right before the italicized paragraph where the origin of three different species of Gorn from three different planets (from the board game) is discussed. NCC-1701-Alpha Historical note: "Alpha" WAS used in dialogue in ST VI (vo while the transport shuttle was approaching Spacedock), but that was the only time :) :I'd add that "Alpha" is the phonetic alphabet word used for "A", and that the phonetic alphabet is most used in the real world during radio transmission. --OuroborosCobra talk 14:09, 15 March 2007 (UTC) ::As Cobra said, Alpha was used as part of radio code. That doesn't mean that's what the "A" stood for -- in actuality, the letters stand for nothing; they're to designate the sequence of vessels. A is vessel A, B is vessel B, etc. Adding Alpha, Beta, etc. is redundant since Alpha is the letter A. --From Andoria with Love 18:29, 17 March 2007 (UTC) Ahem Mind looking at the bottom of Talk:USS Constellation (NCC-1017)#Merge? --OuroborosCobra talk 04:40, 17 March 2007 (UTC) WTF :( ); 11:25 . . Shran (talk | ) (deleted "Image:Lifesigns.jpg": uncropped dupe of Image:Croppedlifesigns.JPG) The new image: *Is titled poorly, includeing the capitalized "JPG" *Is not described or cited properly, including the text "(A cropped version (and therefore much easier to see) of a picture from..." *Is not catagorized *Has no image boilerplate *Is low resolution *Depicts nothing *Is uninteresting *Is not iconic for the episode , in whcih it is used as the episode image *Should have been uploaded over the one it "replaced", at least And now you've deleted the one it was "therefor much better than" which means no one can compare them. Where is that Nominations for De-admin page again? --Bp 18:07, 17 March 2007 (UTC) :Actually, they were both titled poorly, both poorly cited, both uncategorized, both without an image boilerplate. In addition, both had poor resolution, both depicted nothing, both are uninteresting, neither are iconic. Basically what I did was delete the one that wasn't being used. In the end, it doesn't really matter, because the current image will be replaced. It also doesn't matter because one can simply go to the linked web page, save the image and download it again and voila!. :Basically, both images sucked about equally, so I didn't care which one stayed and which one didn't. In the end, both will be gone. Now take your Vulcan cynicism and bury it. :P --From Andoria with Love 18:16, 17 March 2007 (UTC) ::Of course, no one could know any of that because you deleted the old one. "Croppedlifesigns.JPG" is a far worse title than "Lifesigns.jpg", and the previously existing one, well, previously existed. The file should have been uploaded there if it was to be replaced. Anyway, I'm sick of your bad attitude. Power has made you a tyrant. --Bp 18:28, 17 March 2007 (UTC) :::And I'm sick of your bad attitude towards my bad attitude! It's Saint Patty's Day, I'm Irish, I can do whatever I want! Eat me! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! (does the Riverdance) --From Andoria with Tyranny 18:34, 17 March 2007 (UTC) ::::http://film.onet.pl/_i/film/e/elfy_kontra_skrzaty/d.jpg :::: --Bp 18:59, 17 March 2007 (UTC) :::::Colm! As a frickin' leprechaun, no less! Saints preserve us! :P --From Andoria with Love 21:27, 18 March 2007 (UTC) You really let this site down... birthday motherclucker!]] I hope you realize what yesterday was, and the void you left in our hearts by not making a dedication to the man who's birthday fell on 22 March. You really failed me Shran-- no, you failed Memory Alpha. I thought I raised you better than that. Shame. --Alan del Beccio 22:01, 23 March 2007 (UTC) Hey, Leonard Nimoy just called and said that you better not forget his birthday, because he might, since he is like old and stuff. --Alan del Beccio 22:11, 23 March 2007 (UTC) :Well, maybe you didn't raise me so good after all... so I guess that means the problem is you. So shame on you, sir! You not only failed me and Memory Alpha... you failed the Shat. You have brought great shame and dishonor to our house. You no more part of family! :Oh, who am I kidding? I failed you all... and the Shat!!! I failed myself! I don't want to liiiiiiiiiive! --From Andoria with Love 22:19, 23 March 2007 (UTC) ::Ahhh... I love this site. :D --From Andoria with Love 08:06, 28 March 2007 (UTC) this is really bugging me sorry, i've tried to put it in the talk section, but no one pays attention. Image:Delta Flyer.jpg, used in the Delta Flyer article doesn't belong there as it represents the Delta Flyer II (in ). I recently replaced Image:Df2.jpg (which was uncited) with a nearly identical shot currently representing the first Delta Flyer, so now there are essentially duplicate images. I have a replacement for the erroneously titled file ready, but it is protected as it is on the Main Page. so like, i think this should be fixed. yeah. Deevolution 06:29, 30 March 2007 (UTC) :I've gone ahead and unprotected the Delta Flyer image. You should be able to upload the correct image now. :) --From Andoria with Love 06:32, 30 March 2007 (UTC) Heads up Hey, there! Keep an eye on User:Trumpet marietta 45750, ok? He's been going through articles changing all the quotes to stupid "smart quotes", straight apostrophes to angled ones, etc. I've been following along behind him and changing things back. Thanks! -- Renegade54 21:13, 30 March 2007 (UTC) :Roger that. Thanks for the heads up. :) --From Andoria with Love 03:29, 31 March 2007 (UTC) ::Hey Shran! Catch the football! *Throws bee nest* - Enzo Aquarius 03:42, 31 March 2007 (UTC) reminder Jack Hinkle (20 Aug 1938 - 11 Aug 2005) - visual effects editorial for TMP Ban? Hey Shran, while connecting to the IRC, it says I've been 'banned from the channel'. Is this an error or did you guys actually ban me :P - Enzo Aquarius 13:37, 5 April 2007 (UTC) :The entire web gateway was banned. I think to stop stupid-sparta boy. -- Sulfur 15:23, 5 April 2007 (UTC) Dang :P - Enzo Aquarius 15:28, 5 April 2007 (UTC) :It's since been lifted. -- Sulfur 15:30, 5 April 2007 (UTC) First Kiss Shran, noticed that you reverted somebody's assertion on Uhura's page that it "was generally believed" that Shatner and Nichols' kiss was the first kiss between a Caucasian and an African-American on American television. Recent evidence has come to light to suggest that that poster was correct. I put a note on the page for "Plato's Stepchildren" regarding this. Seems that in a 1967 television special (that has been released recently on DVD) Nancy Sinatra and Sammy Davis, Jr. kissed at least once (full lip kiss, between friends, not a romantic kiss). In addition to the DVD itself, Sinatra discussed the kiss on "Larry King Live," a transcript of which is available on the net. So, do we amend the article to say that the Kirk/Uhura kiss was not the first aired on U. S. TV, or do we make a note that the earlier kiss was between people acting as themselves and the K/U kiss was the first between fictional characters? At any rate, seems to me, we should somehow acknowledge that Davis and Sinatra were the "true" first. Sir Rhosis 19:45, 5 April 2007 (UTC) :Maybe the first staged kiss? Or the first kiss on episodic television? Eh, whatever you think is best. First kiss between two fictional characters is fine, too. --From Andoria with Love 19:58, 5 April 2007 (UTC) HUMAN STARSHIPS OF THE 23RDAND 24TH CENTURIES. I apologize for the all cap. title but it is very important. What type of human starships exist in the 23rd and 24th centuries? 64.12.116.135 :What type of Human starships? Starships aren't human... :P Okay, seriously, the United Federation of Planets is comprised of Humans, Vulcans, Andorians, and many, many more alien races, so technically speaking, there are not "Human Starships" in the Federation, nor are there "Vulcan Starships" or so forth; there are "Federation Starships" or "Starfleet Starships". A human starship would designate a vessel owned and operated by a human crew not affiliated with the Federation or Starfleet, such as some types of cargo ships. That said, I'm not sure of the back of my head what type of human starships existed in the 23rd and 24th centuries... sorry. :/ --From Andoria with Love 03:56, 16 April 2007 (UTC) ::Thank you,that was a very satisfying answer, I appreciate your sincerity. Why is it that the Federation vessels resemble those of Earth Starfleet? That's how I became confused. :Well, it's never really explained, but it likely has something to do with tradition as well as preference and maybe – just maybe – their designs proved to be more efficient than those of other worlds, including the Vulcans. Also, keep in mind that, judging from the dedication plaques of most of the starships we've seen, many of the people who work to design and the build the starships are Human... at least, they have Human-like names. That probably only adds more confusion to the mix, but it's something to think about, I suppose, and offers an explanation as to why Federation vessels are modeled after early Earth designs. --From Andoria with Love 03:22, 18 April 2007 (UTC)